Fargo & The Land of 1000 Leeches
Episode Notes
The sixth episode of The Leech finds our three friends searching for leeches, money, and meaning beneath the tundra of the 1996 film Fargo.
We’re always looking to expand our pond -- please reach out!
Series URL: www.theleechpodcast.com
Public email contact: theleechpodcast@gmail.com
Social Media:
@leechpodcast on Twitter
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Credits:
Hosted by Evan Cate, Banks Clark, and Aaron Jones
Editing by Evan Cate
Graphic design by Banks Clark
Original music by Justin Klump of Podcast Sound and Music
Production help from Lisa Gray of Sound Mind Productions
Equipment help from Topher Thomas
Episode Transcript:
Evan 00:25
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Leech Podcast, the most visceral Podcast. I am your host Evan Cate. I'm joined by two leechy gentlemen, Aaron Jones, Banks Clark–welcome guys.
Banks 00:37
Always good to be here.
Aaron 00:38
Hey. Hey. Hey.
Evan 00:40
Leech Podcast is a show about movies that suck the life out of you, but also stick with you. They may even be good for you like a little baby leech!
Aaron and Banks 00:56
[Hearty Chuckles]
Evan 00:57
This week's leech film is “a little guy kind of funny looking in a general kind of way.” Yes, I'm talking about ! Watch that film this week. And of course, it is directed by the Coen Brothers it stars Francis McDormand, William H. Macy, and Steve Buscemi among other notable figures in the cast. It won the 1996 Best Picture Oscar, and we have much to talk about which we're excited to do very soon. Before we do that, though, we want to always expand our pond. So please, talk to us. Hit us up on Twitter @LeechPodcast and Instagram theLeechPodcast, we would love to hear your thoughts about episodes, characters themes, interesting things that you're thinking about movies that we should consider, and this week, in particular, we would love to hear from you all about ethical leech farming. That's right. Are there sustainable swamps that we should know about? Are there cage-free leeches? Are there ethical leech farming practices? If so, we want to know about it. We would love to bring an ethical each farmer on the pod interview them. There's so much here, and we would love to learn more about the ethics of leech harvesting. Also, please get in this—Twitter, Instagram hit us up!
Well, we've reached that point where Aaron is going to gross us out with some more leech anatomy. Aaron, take it away.
Aaron 02:29
Oh, I have so much to think about today. So I'm gonna start by talking about geography. Let's talk about the movie Fargo. The title comes from a place called Fargo, North Dakota, I want you to which is right on the border between North Dakota, Minnesota. I want you to travel just east of there with me as the characters in the movie due to the land of 1000 Lakes. And my curiosity was what's in those lakes? Yes, yes. And it turns out that if you drive due east to Fargo, you get to a place called Brainerd which is in the movie it's about 140 miles but that, in the center of those two places, is a place called Perham, Minnesota, where I found some fascinating facts from a leech Trapper named Rod Fudge, who was interviewed on NPR that's Minnesota Public Radio in 1997. This is a famous interview, infact, I also saw it in an interview cited in a national park service study of some kind. Anyway, Rod Fudge is a leech Trapper who goes amongst these lakes that are again right along the trail of the movie we're watching and traps fishing leeches, leeches that will be used and sold to fishermen. And it reminded me of this part in the movie where Marge brings nightcrawlers to norm. I don't know if you remember this, but yeah, fishermen are like there's so many lakes the fishing is great up there. And these leech trappers apparently Rod Fudge sells in a year. I don't know if he's still active. This is 99715000 tonnes, what 30,000 pounds. He has a seven-person crew that goes in boats around these lakes using traps. And by the way, I also learned I was doing some research on a site from Thurston County, Washington. And their question, hey, their question is if you have a lake that's full of leeches, how do you keep the population down so that you can enjoy swimming so I wanted to give a quick tip to our listeners. Apparently, you can make leech traps and I think rod fudge does this a similar way by using a one-pound coffee can with the lid on drilling small holes in it and putting raw meat inside. I believe that rod fudge likes to use beef kidneys for his traps. You put this in the lake, the leeches will swim through the small little holes and when they eat, they get too fat to leave and you get the you end Do the trap every day. Now the last thing I want to say, that we're up in Minnesota 1000s of tons of leeches being pulled out of these lakes. But the question becomes, and they are trapped. Well, of course, the question becomes, this movie is set in winter. What do leeches do in winter? Hmm, that's my last question I wanted to investigate. And it turns out that many leeches some leeches can live for two to eight years, which means clearly, they lived through all the seasons. And in that area, leeches burrow into the mud at the bottom of lakes, and they sleep for the winter. they hibernate where the water does not freeze. Now there's a world record that's been set. And this is the last thing I'm going to say I promise I'm almost done here, where a set of Japanese scientists did a study to see if there were leeches that could survive in extremely cold temperatures. And they found that there was one leech a kind of turtle leech that only sucks the blood of turtles that could live. They could survive for up to 24 hours submerged in liquid nitrogen. Liquid Nitrogen is 196 below Celsius, negative 321 degrees Fahrenheit. And this turtle could live for 24 hours and survive that environment. That's all I want to say for now. Thank you so much for listening.
Evan 06:23
Wow. So Aaron, would you say that those leeches are like the Captain America of leeches?
Aaron 06:27
Are they winter soldiers?
Evan 06:29
And they're just frozen in ice for generations….
Aaron 06:34
Welll, t hey are winter soldiers.
Banks 06:35
Oh my gosh.
Evan 06:37
Yeah, I kind of don't know what to do with that, Banks do you want to chime in here?
Aaron 06:39
Like I hardly took a breath while I sat on that.
Banks 06:42
I'm a little worried about the in-depth-ness of your research–I think you're getting a little too into this. I'm glad to see that but, uh, gonna have to check in on you a few times. Dang! They are going to replace this all man. The leeches, soon we're gonna be leeching off of them in their place after we get the nuclear winter over here. Just saying.
Aaron 07:07
Good lord.
Evan 07:07
Yeah, I'm really impressed by these leeches. And I think I'm a little worried given our call to action about ethical leech farming. I'm a little worried that those traps may or may not be I don't know, ethically sound? If Ron, Rod….?
Aaron 07:32
Rod Fudge
Evan 07:27
If Rod Fudge wants to come on the pod and explain his trading and trapping practices, I'd be glad to have him.
Aaron 07:35
He is most welcome.
Evan 07:36
So thanks for that. Okay. Well,
Banks 07:38
And Aaron, I want to know what next time I want to hear about what it is like, if that's the coldest, what's the hottest they can go?
Evan 07:45
Oh, wow. Okay. Next week,
Aaron 07:48
Challenging Accepted. Challenge Accepted!
Banks 07:49
I mean, What is the leech going to do with global warming? That’s what I want to know.
Evan 07:52
That's, yeah, maybe they won't survive us? I don't know. Maybe it depends on the region. We have I mean, this raises so many questions. I know we got to keep going. But there are many questions here. If the listeners have more insights for us, please hit us up at Twitter @theleechpodcast. Okay. Banks, we're talking about the movie Fargo today. What happened in this movie,
Aaron 08:15
But don't “go” too “far”. Sorry. In the exposition, sir. I'm so sorry.
Banks 08:26
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna try and do it. I'll keep it under half an hour this time. So, yeah, as always, a quick spoiler warning, we're going to be talking about this movie in-depth. If you haven't seen it. Pause right now go and watch it, it is worth your time. This is a phenomenal movie. I think all of us here really loved this movie, enjoy seeing it, and definitely worth taking a moment watching it. There's also a content warning. This is definitely not one of the most, you know, gruesome movies we've done, but definitely not the easiest movie to watch. But for some people, it does have some violence, it does have some adult content of various kinds and varieties. But just wanted to make sure that that's out of the way.
So, Fargo, this is a story that I think is actually two stories. This is a story of two stories that are coming and meeting each other. And so the first story, right this is the story of Jerry Lundegaard. Jerry Lundegaard, played by William H. Macy, and this is about this man who is in deep financial trouble; who has gotten himself into trouble and his plans to try and save himself from this distress. Ant that these plans slowly and surely unravel in a spiral. You know, his plan is kind of ridiculou from the start. Meet him going to a dive bar to meet some sketchy folks. One of whom this is Carl Showalter played by the great Steve Buscemi and Gaear Grimsrud played by Peter Stomare. I'm not sure how to pronounce that name–not gonna lie. No. But it's the whole idea is he's going to have his own wife kidnapped, so that his own father-in-law can pay a ransom. Then Jerry can use to pay off his own debts without his own father-in-law, knowing that he's in debt. And so it's just very strange circumstances to try and get this done. And this plan just doesn't work at all. You know, he's so lost he actually has a moment when he actually is pretty much offered 75 grand from his father-in-law for a finder's fee. And he's so upset that it isn't like 10 times that he turns it down. Then he throws a little hissy fit in the parking lot-it's great. And then the plan itself just goes horribly wrong. The kidnapping goes wrong and the sort of these two sort-of sketchy guys who kidnapped his own wife get pulled over and then they killed a cop and then two witnesses drive by and then they get run down and killed. You know, it ends up happening that the drop when they're supposed to like after the kidnapping has been money dropped goes wrong when Wade the father-in-law insists upon dropping the money off himself. And then in so doing, gets shot, and then also shoots. Shoots Carl, shoots Steve Buscemi, his character in the face. AH, Right the cheek–it's rough. And then like upon returning, you know, Carl's really angry and so then himself gets axed and then gets woodchiped and then they get caught by the police. Like everything goes wrong with this plan–that's one story. And then the other story is the story of this is Frances McDormand character’s story. This is the story of Marge Gunderson and Norm Gunderson. And this is the story of a cop, and this is like the story of constancy. It's the story of stability and integrity in the face of a spiral. These really balance each other out. It's funny, you don't even see the story till like half an hour into the film is when we're introduced to Francis McDormand’s character. She is this cop who's charming, she seems unflappable, like whether she's talking about stamps or a grotesque murder. She's like [Initiated bad impresion of Minessota accent], “Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's good.” Always with this, you know, great Minnesotan accent. She is kind of just this total badass, who's an incredible cop. And she just simply follows the case, she gets called in after the murders on the highway, follows the clues. As she's following the clues she makes time to go to and have a buffet dinner with her husband. And, you know, her husband delivers food to her, she meets up with old friends, she talks to them on the phone, and she ends up finding the killers. And as it happens, the film ends very charmingly, like she brings them in and the movie closes with, you know, margin norm in the bed watching TV snacking on chips, saying that's the end of the day and we're one day closer to the due date for her kid. And that's Fargo. It's these two stories that intersect with each other and that just balance them out, the balance each other out wonderfully. And for such a complex series of stories, it's told with I think, unmatched economy. It is just such an economical lesson in storytelling. It's phenomenal. And that's what I will end with.
Evan 13:46
All right, Banks. Well done. That was well stated in under 30 minutes, under 30 minutes. So Bravo, bravo. Alright, so with that in mind, let's dive into our categories. So we'll start with leechy theme. I'll start us off. My theme for this movie is the Midwest.
Aaron 14:05
Oh, [inquisical sounds]
Evan 14:10
It's more of a region than a th eme.
Banks 14:14
It is undeniably a region.
Evan 14:17
But it's also a region of the mind, so to speak. So
Aaron 14:20
Oh hey, a state of mind.
Evan 14:22
I think I, I don't quite know how to put it but I want to highlight the warmth and the brutality that the Coens portray in the Midwest. It's a bleak land. It's winter, it's cold. And yet there's also and there's this grisly murders, of course. And then there's also this warmth from Marge. And so I think the film as you described by Banks, toggles between warmth and brutality. But then there's all these really specific things about the Midwest. The accents, of course, and let's, let's just apologize to the audience right now for all of our bad accents that we're going to do. I already did one, I apologize now
Banks 15:02
There will be more...
Evan 15:07
So the accents, the attention to local culture and detail. I would mention in particular the Paul Bunyan statue, the duck paintings, the fricassee, the accordion King. We could go down the list. This seems like a strange kind of Ode to the Midwest, or a distillation of something about the Midwest. But I think what I want to hit on and then I'll try to be brief is that the Paul Bunyan statue, it, they zoom in on it a couple times as characters are going back and forth across the highway. And it almost kind of zooms in a few times on the face. It feels almost like David Lynch in a way like Twin Peaks, David Lynch. But I also couldn't help but think of the eyes of Dr. TJ Eckleburg. Overlooking New York City in The Great Gatsby, Jose Morrison, these are the eyes of God, looking over this de botched and depraved world and go read The Great Gatsby if you haven't, Fitzgerald makes much of this image. The Great Gatsby is also a book about the Midwest. Gatsby is from the Midwest. And I think there's, I am hearing this kind of echo here. There is this Paul Bunyan statue, the Midwest is looking over this land and the things that happened. And it all just happens. It's brutal. It's bleak. There is this ray of warmth in Marge, but really it's just a cold hard winter.
Aaron 16:45
I wouldn't say, I think the fact that Bunyan is an axe-man is pretty important. The sort of the iconic figure of the Midwest is one who swings an axe. And the people who swing axes in this movie are it's pretty it's pretty grisly stuff that they're doing even even though the veneer of the Midwest like the paint on the bunny statue so bright and cheery so I think the bunny statue is sort of an embodiment of both storylines and one and the contradictory nature
Banks 17:18
Well riddle me this then. In this metaphor, what role does “Babe the Blue Ox” play?
Evan 17:25
Oh yes, great question. Babe the Blue Ox, I believe the Babe Blue Ox is the name of the bar where they find the prostitutes. Are you kidding? With Steve Buscemi,
Aaron 17:40
The touches the detail there.
Evan 17:42
It's a rich tapestry there that we can unpack as we go and look at the Midwest is my theme.
Aaron 17:47
Oh, let me jump in. Let me jump in. I wasn't thinking about that at all. I was thinking about the this film in the Coen canon, so to speak. The Coen canon. And I was thinking about this theme I was picking up on that felt to me much of a piece with some other films. And for me, it's the theme of futility. If we were to go in another direction we could call it absurdity to I'm going to call it futility. And what I mean is, the Cohens seem to love telling stories about people who aren't all that bad, and maybe are trying really hard. But no matter what they do, it goes wrong. It goes so wrong. I'm thinking especially of the movie A Serious Man. But I'm also thinking No Country for Old Men. And the character Llewelyn who is trying to fight off the villain Chigurh, and everything he does just cannot save him. In the sense of which no matter how hard you try in life, your best efforts are going to be spoiled, or fail. And that's how I feel when I'm looking at Jerry Lundegaard and I'm like, “Oh, God, like he can't do anything right.” And that's, I want to say more about that later. But it is like it's brutal. The sense of futility watching him trying to save his neck and tighten the rope at the same time is “Oh, that's hard.” That's my theme.
Banks 19:17
[With a Minnesota Accent] “Yeah, I'm not sure, uh, I agree with your critic, their work, uh, Aaron.” Because I actually think that my theme is integrity. Ah, my theme for this movie is the power of integrity. Oh, I think that this is a narrative story of how it's almost like an ode to people willing to live a simple life and do it really well and finding, kind of, an epic brilliance to it. I think that that's the story of Marge Gunderson. She's this wonderful character is not trying to be…. doesn't have huge ambition very little you know her she drives an old you know police Prowler that needs a jump every once in a while, you know, her husband paints for stamps, they have this very quaint little house covered in cross knitted, you know, throw pillows. I mean, it's just there's just something about her just trying to do everything right and her character stands out in relief to all these other stories where everyone is trying to get an upper hand, and there is the sense of futility. I think you're right. But I think that's the face of you could just, you know, live life because, “there's more to life than money, you know,”
Aaron 20:47
hmm, there's something about the futility of striving or something and the futility of ambition or the futility of greed or things like that. I get what you're saying I like this actually. I think it's sort of like a tale of the tale of two cities in a way it's like a tale of two stories and and they're at war with one another. They're fully contradictory.
Evan 21:09
Would you say the two cities are Brainard and Fargo?
Aaron 21:15
I would I would say that yes. You can quote me on that.
Evan 21:19
Great. Okay, well, why don't you keep talking to us Aaron about your leechiest scene?
Aaron 21:24
Oh….[long series of Aaron-like sounds] … I had a really difficult time choosing! Okay, all right. I thought I was gonna go with another one. But I think I'm gonna talk about the scene where Carl and Gaear kidnap Jerry Lundegaard’s wife, Jean, from their house. That's a really leechy scene for me. So confession, like I'm a little bit paranoid about people breaking into my house. But I don't usually expect them to do it the way that it's done in the film. Which is done day in like really obvious ski masks. And the moment where Jean is watching TV and looks out the window, and just sits there watching them break and is a Whoa, it's stunning. And then so the scene is comically absurd, of course. But what makes it leechy for me is like, has to do with the dark turns that it takes like her attempts then to escape this moment of incredible absurdity. Really grim when she's in the bathroom. She's hiding behind the curtain, they think she's left through the window. I just think for me that in a nutshell, that scene explains my feeling about the movie and even even here we see futility again. Here she is trying so hard to escape and to have one brave moment and her entirely pampered and privileged life. And she fails at it. And the good does not prevail. isn't for me. I mean, that scene is unforgettable. And it sticks with me. And because of this, like gut-wrenching sense of like the kidnapping and the futility of her escape, there's this there's the take something out of me.
Evan 23:15
Yeah, thanks,
Banks 23:17
Man. That scene. I just can't i can't get it get around when you see him like just walk up the stairs on the patio, window. Oh, man, and then it takes such a dark turn. How do they make that so something so dark, so funny? And it's kind of amazing. It's I think that's kind of the magic of the film a little bit. But that's not my not that's not my scene. I think, for me the scenes that I can't stop thinking about, that annoyed me most are the moments I think when we have these two stories. You know the story of the striving and manipulation, meeting the story of like constancy and integrity. They come together and those are the conversations between Marge and Jerry. The ones at the car dealership. For me those two scenes run together a little bit. But those scenes are just amazing performances, both by Frances McDormand and William H. Macy. They're just phenomenal. But, when you can watch Jerry panicking, like, you know, they're saying, “Oh, yeah, babe, the Blue Ox” and then, you know, you see, Jerry Lundegaard just sort of sitting there just silent. And then all of a sudden just starts laughing “The Blue Ox!” and just starts laughing again. And you can just see him trying to find a lie, trying to find a way to wiggle out of it. You know, like a leech, they're slimy, right? So we can just continue to do something else. And then of course, he's like throws these, you know, you can just hear like get angry for no reason at all. And I just think that that's so those just stick with me so much. Partially because I think William H. Macy does such a good job of making you relate, making you relate to your own temptation. Like there are moments in your life where you've been tempted to like really lie or you felt really caught in something and all of a sudden you're like, What do I do? And you're caught panicking and thinking and all of a sudden, you have to say something. I don't know. It's just, I just relate. Maybe that says that I'm gonna have a very unfortunate turn in my life. We'll see?
Evan 25:46
I hope not.
Banks 25:46
I hope I'm not gonna go to Babe the Blue Ox That's for sure. But for me, those scenes are just I can't get them out of my head. Because the contrast between these two plot lines colliding is held in the highest relief.
Aaron 26:02
I would like to add, I would like to add that as we said The Tale of Two Cities though this film seems like the Clash of the Titans? They are like the two the what's it called the immovable object and the unstoppable force, a guess. I think this is the unstoppable force as she moves the object anyway, l et's keep going.
Evan 26:22
I think that's great. So just maybe to pick up on that a little bit. So my scene is the scene the dinner between Marge and Mike Yanagita. Which is a really strange scene. And I think a lot of a lot of the commentary when the movie came out question, why is the scene in the movie? It's, it's this very lonely man, Mike, who Margeed into high school with claims to have married someone which we find out later that he didn't name Linda. Marge meets with him, she gets dressed up puts on makeup, which is Yeah, range. So it just it just want to like put… I want to put a flag on that. Because I think banks to your point about her being a character of integrity. I don't know if this is a moment where she lacks integrity. But there's a thought that she's doing there. I mean, she clearly loves norm. Love supports this duck painting. But I don't know, why does she get dressed up? There's something maybe she's I wonder if she feels like she's missing something? And I don't know.
Banks 27:26
Yeah. And it's it. It's very clearly highlighted. Like she's like her makeup is on to the point of almost being a bit garish like it there really, it's quite prominent. She's done up a little bit.
Evan 27:37
So there's something about her ambivalence there, maybe. And then Mike himself has just this very lonely guy, he tells a story about losing his wife. He is clearly trying to get together with Marge. And yet we do find out later that he didn't actually ever married this woman that he claimed to. And that he had been, I think in a psych psychiatric institution. Maybe he lives with his parents. Yeah, so he's, he's not well, in many ways, it seems. That seemed to me just the scene itself is so uncomfortable watching this sort of failed romance attempt on Mike's part. But it's also this moment of like, oh, what's Why is Marge so interested in being there? Why did she get all done up for it? So I think that's the issue to me. And then knowing later that actually he was making a lot of up. It's like, oh, was she in danger there? And we didn't know it. That and then and then we kind of what is this? What is the scene doing enemy? I think there's one way to read it as this odd placement of this odd event that sometimes happens to you in your life. So this adds to the realism of the film. It's like, Oh, yeah, of course, while you're investigating a murder, some random person from high school might look you up, and you have this awkward encounter. But I do think, and I, I can't take credit for this. I read this somewhere. But I think a later interpretation that's good, is that when it becomes clear to her that Mike is not who He said He was, she has to question some of the assumptions that her normal Midwestern upbringing would would lead her to usually have, if someone's Nice, nice enough, there can be trustworthy. And I think when she sees that Mike actually was lying to her, that that's when she goes back and has that second conversation with Jerry rakes. And she really questions him and then he flees and that unlocks the case. So I think that scene is important for the plot. I bring the scene up just I think the scene itself is so uncomfortable and strange that it's leechy like I can't get it out of my head. I think it's also actually very important for the flow of the film.
Aaron 29:51
I'm I'm coming back to that makeup and really curious about it and I have a couple of thoughts about it. One is she just dressed up because it's a fine restaurant. Secondly, is she dressed out Radisson as she drinks at the Radisson? Oh, yeah. Right. And she doesn't like there's a way in which it's so out of character for her like, she doesn't go to those spaces. She doesn't know how to perform or and so she kind of overcompensates in a way maybe? But I wonder if also like she reconnects with this person, because he saw her on the news about the murder, and therefore thinks that she's kind of a big deal. Oh, and for me, I'm wondering Is she is she dressed up because she feels like, she wants to present an image of successfulness in some way, and I'm also interested. Last thing I want to say is, if you're right, that this scene is sort of like a temptation, in some ways, it's also it seems to be a scene about where she like pretty quickly overcomes that temptation. If she's at all interested. Firmly, she turns, she turns pretty cold. Like she's got good boundaries, you know? Yeah. So it's hard for me to read the makeup that way as if there's an openness to him, although I or is it? Is it about the past? Is it about connecting with someone from your past and the sweetness and astounded of that? I don't know.
Banks 31:13
It's a very leechy scene for sure.
Aaron 31:16
Yeah. So many questions.
Evan 31:19
Yeah, it sticks with you. And I think bears a lot of interpret like a lot of time thinking about different ways of interpreting it. I just want to note before we move to the next category, none of us mentioned the wood chipper seeing arguably the most famous from this movie, Grizzly, of course. And I also just want to give honorable mention to the scene, the car pullover, which the incident for the murders is really intense, and brutal theme. really brutal, but I love the ones we chose
Aaron 31:56
I was just gonna say that when they do the money drop off and Wade gets shot, and Carl gets shot in the face. That was my second choice of nouns. Six were the backs on Yeah, anyway.
Evan 32:12
Alright, so let's go with leechy characters. Banks, we start us off.
Banks 32:19
Oh, yeah. No contest! No, I really do think so. I'm going to go for some low-hanging fruit here. It has to be Jerry Lundegaard. This guy–he is so manipulative, he is so desperate, he is so clinging to an escape route. He's clearly caught in this cycle of debt and unable to get himself out and is constantly making it worse and unable to be honest and open and isolating. And, you know, that's how the movie opens is with his very strange, backwards plan. And it provides the backbone for the whole movie. And for me, you know, it's him fleeing the scenes, it's him just trying to get away abandoning his family, he totally forgets about his own son. There's just one scene where, you know, they're talking about the ransom letters and things like that. And then, right. You know, his father's, you know, associate, Stan Grossman reminds him like, Oh, you know, how's your son doing? And he goes, Oh, yeah, my son. Like, I think that hadn't really crossed his mind yet. And by the end of the film, there's just no mention of the fact that here's there's a child who has been orphaned. And the sense is that it's this man who's just kind of awful. But also, for me, like the scene that I still think about so much is at the very end of the film. I think it's the penultimate scene, where you go to a motel. And again, you have Jerry Lundegaard, on the other side of the door, saying, Oh, just a minute. I'll be right there. And he is then clinging like a leech to a window sill. As the cops are pulling at his legs, his boxer shorts to just pry him off from that's the only way that he was going to ever stop clinging to this plan. His plan is at constant need to try and escape his own schemes.
Evan 34:33
It's wonderful. Yeah, he is like a leech to a leg. He is clinging to that. That room.
Aaron 34:43
What he does, that's the leech to the leg. What about you? What's your were you gonna say, Jerry, were we gonna say?
Evan 34:50
It's hard to argue against Jerry? I think I agree. I'll just put some words out here for Carl Showalter .
Aaron 34:58
Hey, let's…
Evan 34:59
Show me
Aaron 35:00
Oh gosh, man.
Evan 35:04
I'm not gonna debate you, Jerry. I'm not gonna debate you. He's greasy. He's a criminal. He seems to have zero moral compass. He's not particularly loyal doesn't seem to know. Gaear very well and yet he just can't stop talking and he just talks and talks and talks and he just kind of gets under everybody's skin right oh thanks go ahead.
Banks 35:31
I can be silent too, you know, radio silence.
Evan 35:38
Do you like it? And I think Yeah, and that's what's so great about that scene is that Gaear Grimsrud is clearly really dangerous and scary. And yet you actually kind of feel for him in that scene, because like, that guy would be really annoying to drive across the store. Yeah, call me crazy. So Carl, yeah, I'll go with Carl.
Aaron 35:58
Hmm, that's really respectable. I feel like a lot of the characters in the film qualify this for me. The person who gets under my skin like nothing else is Wade, the father-in-law. Wayne, new stuff, son, who is a just such a pain in the neck and an impediment, and a total antagonist to Jerry, that there's this moment early in the film, where they're all together. Yeah. And here and there. I don't know if it's a memory or a live conversation where he's asking about, you know, what will happen to Jean and Scotty and me and he says, Oh Jean, and Scotty you're gonna be fine. And it's implied that like, he cares a very little for Jerry. In fact, maybe lo the SIM, and a really deep way, watching that dynamic play out? Is it kind of excruciating for me. Oh, so Wade, as this as this antagonist, who's he's so kind of brash, and brusque and gets himself killed and constantly gets in the way because even though I despise I to despise Jerry, just like Wade does, because he is at the center of the film, he becomes a protagonist, who I in some way want to win. And there's a way in which Wade will not let him and that gets to me. So he's gonna be my leechy character this time.
Evan 37:32
Yeah. And I think along those lines, I think he's an important character in the script, because he allows the audience to sympathize with Jerry. Yeah. Overall, he would just be this really, really awful annoying person. But it's also like, Oh, well, I mean, I don't not to justify anything. But if you had a father-in-law like that, you know, you might, you know, go do bad things. You won't go that far, but like it does sympathize jury a little bit.
All right, well, we have reached that point in the episode where it's time to go to the beach in Fargo.
Aaron 38:10
Not much of a vacation…
Evan 38:13
He'll be going to a lake. Remind us again. What lake are we going to in Minnesota?
Aaron 38:19
I don't know. Like, where did we go before? It was “Perham” Minnesota or him? Yes. Let's go!
Evan 38:27
Oh, yeah.
Banks 38:28
We got beaches on beaches there!
Aaron 38:29
I got a lot of leeches there.
Evan 38:30
There's many funny things about this movie, which we should get into. But I thought we could start with a little game, which is to share some of our favorite quotes round-robin style. So let's just each share a quote. I'll start us off.
“Oh, how's the fricassee”
Banks 38:47
“Oh, hey, Norm, how's the painting going?”
Aaron 38:51
“I’m cooperating. I'm cooperating darn tootin!!!”
Evan 38:54
“Oh, I'm Marge Gunderson from Brainerd investigating some malfeasance.”
Banks 39:01
“Prowler needs a jump”
Evan 39:09
I'm not sure i agree with you 100% on your police work there, Lou.
Banks 39:17
“Blood has been shed, Jerry”
Evan 39:20
“I'm not gonna debate you, Jerry…..”
Banks 39:22
“....not gonna sit here and debate.”
Evan 39:29
Oh….. yeah, great.
Banks 39:31
…..we can keep doing that all episode. By the way, which I'm sure the audience will be great content here.
Aaron 39:37
I love it. I'm no good at it, but you guys have a mom up your sleeve. I love this so much.
Evan 39:42
The other thing I would want to say for Leech on a beach a place in the movie in the midst of a really sad and awful moment. Is the accordion King poster on the back of Scotty’s door. It the camera just lingers on it is I don't know who that is. I've never heard of the accordion king but just feels really, really special to me and makes me laugh.
Aaron 40:08
Do you know that this reminded me of is a character from home alone? The Polka King of Chicago? Yeah, who was that john? Yeah
Evan 40:16
yeah yeah. big hands back in the 70’s Yeah.
Aaron 40:26
An amazing in that moment anyway so Good Accordion King
Evan 40:31
I the other place that I felt like I was on a beach in this movie was right around the time that I think Marge is figuring out the case, but she stops for a hamburger at Hardee's. And she's eating the burger and there's all these lights like a strip-mall behind her. I just thought, Man, this is this is America says a lot. And I really love it.
Aaron 40:54
It's a scene where nothing is going wrong. All the disaster seems held at bay on a little vacation.
Evan 41:00
A little vacation. All right. Any other leeches on the beaches? beaches.
Banks 41:06
I think the movie has tons of them. I think they're all over the place. And that's part of the land of 1000 beaches here.
Evan 41:12
Hey, hey, as part of the honestly, yeah. Yeah, it's the end of every scene. I feel like we're I mean, we're watching in person together. And I felt like we were laughing frequently!
Aaron 41:23
Too frequently, sir?
Evan 41:27
well, what a good segue. Let's get into some rudo therapy. From this. Someone jump in and talk to us about what is what is medicinal from this movie that we need?
Aaron 41:40
That's a good question. Why do we need this movie? It's such a weird movie.
Banks 41:44
It is. It's, but there's something like when we all agreed, like yeah, we're gonna do Fargo. I have not been this excited for one of our movies ever. I never been this excited for a leech. Ever, ever. Wow. I think that might say something.
Aaron 42:03
Well, what does it say? Okay….
Banks 42:07
We'll get there. Okay. We'll get there. But I do think that there's just something deeply therapeutic about this movie and people who, you know, you have this badass, cop, pregnant, she's getting morning sickness, while like while also investigating murders and just keeps rolling. She's kind of unstoppable. As you put it, And, I guess that gives me hope. Her character gives me hope.
Aaron 42:40
I think that's right. I think that's right. She is the sort of the core of the film. The sum. The heroine who has so few flaws and is so unflappable, unstoppable. I think for me, I think that is the medicine or quality this film is all those small humanizing touches that it makes even about the sort of the worst characters. Like you said earlier, Evan, where Wade is in the movie to kind of humanize Jerry in a way and to make him comprehensible. And the film is really affectionate toward even the worst of his characters were even made to suffer with gay er, this horrible murder. While right he's riding in the car with Carl, and we have to watch Carl suffer. And we don't want him to get killed. Like we, we don't, there's no person in the film, who you have no feeling for. And so in a way the film is sort of this, this testing ground of compassion and empathy. And it's an invitation in a way to sort of engage the humanity of other people, even at their worst, because a lot of folk at their worst.
Banks 43:55
Like even the, you know, the two prostitutes, they're sort of given like, there's like, you know, the world's most ridiculous, you know, short sex scene, right? That ends with them. It's like all like, watching television and smoking. But then like later, they have like, this charming conversation with Mark. Oh, so you were doing it with the big fella that? Like, again, like you're just like, you know, Go Bears. Yeah.
Aaron 44:26
We're on the same team. People are people.
Banks 44:29
Yeah, everyone has some sort of humanizing element I would hope and that maybe I think that's what they're trying to do. At least
Evan 44:37
I can achieve it.
Aaron 44:38
But I haven't any, any medicine for you here. Like Where are you at?
Evan 44:42
I'm struggling a bit with this movie to find something really clear for her radiotherapy. But I do think as we talk about it, I guess the question it raises for me is, where are the places of warmth that you go to in a land of darkness or bleakness So I think about the home that Marge and norm have created, which is, I do think this film does humanize the Midwest, and it has these very human details and touches, like you said, Aaron. It also does these accents that are so over the top. We're laughing, and I can't tell how often we're laughing at the folks we're with, or I don't know. But I do think like as as sort of silly and banal. Maybe as the duck paintings are, like norm is a faithful person to her in the midst of her pregnancy. She is a very loving person, and also highly capable, and really good at her job and cares about living in a certain way of integrity. And I think for the Coen Brothers in particular, yeah, I think it's right that a lot of their films, handle and dabble in futility. But it's interesting to find some of their films, where is the light, or where is the place of warmth, or which characters embody that. And so I think this film, in a really odd absurdist kind of way, through Marge maybe especially, offers us ways of finding more of in a desolate place.
Aaron 46:13
I love them. I love them. I think that's right. Their home is kind of, yeah, it's the safe place. And it's the the crazy storm of winter and all of the events of the film, it is this solid center. I love that.
Banks 46:29
And even on the earliest coldest mornings, still got to have your breakfast. Hey.
Evan 46:38
Which actually kind of made me I don't know why I'm thinking this, but it did make me think of the road. McCarthy novel, oh, that's a far more extreme version of this. But in a very, very brutal, post apocalyptic world. There is this warmth between this father and son. And it makes me understand I think why the Cohens might have been drawn to something like No Country for Old Men, which has, I think, similar themes to this film. Although I would say in some ways like deepens and expands upon them. There's no there's no force of evil in this film as bad is like Graham's route is he's not Anton sugar.
Aaron 47:17
No, not.
Evan 47:19
Yeah. So but I do think they're really interested in how do you find more of a family connection? In really, really dangerous, bleak places?
Aaron 47:33
Oh, no. Y'all just the same time angling me up. You tangling me up about my leech ratings. Molly's ratings, how many leeches? Do we get this film?
Evan 47:48
I have. I have an answer. Do you want to go first there?
Aaron 47:51
Oh, well. I think I have a grim feeling about what you're gonna say. I have no idea what Banks is gonna say for me. No, I don't want to go first.
Evan 48:04
Okay, I'll go first start us off. I'm at one, one Leech. Now, just to clarify, clarify, our lead trading is not the same as a “star rating.” If it was out of four stars in terms of quality, it's a four-star movie. I think it's incredible. But as a leech movie, as in something that sucks the life out of you that exhausts you. I'm just not there. I was laughing for a lot of this movie. And maybe that's because I've seen it a bunch. But I think even that fact that I've seen it a bunch speaks to my point here, which is, I think Leech movies or movies that like, you gotta go years and years and years between viewings. Yeah, they're good for you. Yeah, they're medicinal. But the pain the pain is too much. In this movie, I'm just like, delighted too often, for it to be a strong leechy.
Aaron 48:57
Ooh, okay. Yeah, I can I can respond to that. Because I, what I was debating is whether or not I could give this movie to leeches. Whether I could give it to, partly because of what I was hinting at earlier, which is this, this sense of futility and failure, and kind of agonizing. I can't think of the word I want to say. No, it's right. Again.
Evan 49:26
He’s pitiful. He's like agonizingly pitiful.
Aaron 49:32
Agonizingly pitiful in a way that like makes me uncomfortable and makes me uneasy, like it it takes things out of me to be acquainted with him and in his company. Alright, And, and for that reason, I was like leaning to leecher. But here's where I pull back is that I think, I honestly think and y'all can fight me on this, but I don't. For me, the movie for me. Because at the end, it was at the end as a story, like the movie short. And I think there's actually a little more work for it to do and I'm, that doesn't kind of let me end with a sense of closure or clear messaging. So for example, if you're just looking at the plot, right, Jerry Lundegaard, he puts his father in law in the trunk of his car, which is this incredibly terrible leechy move. Oh my gosh, what a sicko like he's not even gonna call the cops. He's so obsessed with saving his own neck. And then we never know what happens with the body. We're never told. The film is interested in telling us and I actually think for me, like, in order for me to feel like the emotional arc is completed. And like my sense of catharsis or reaction is going to be total and concluded. I don't think the movie for me it fumbles and, and that's why I sink down to one leech because I want it to give me a stronger punch. I wanted to hit me in the gut harder. And at the end, it goes out with a whimper instead of a bang. And for me, that didn't work.
Banks 51:06
Mm hmm. Well, you said, you wondered if we were gonna if I was gonna fight you on it. I am gonna fight you on this. The other way though? Zero Leeches.
Aaron 51:20
Oh, oh, oh!.
Evan 51:22
[Questionable Minnesotan accent] “The Number Zero!” Wow.
Banks 51:24
And I say that, this is one of my favorite movies.
Evan 51:26
Oh, but yes, yes.
Banks 51:29
I don't think that. As you said in the intro, a leech movie is something that sucks the life out of you. This movie gives me life every time I watch it! I have watched this movie far too many times and I get more life from it. It's like a blood donor. Like every time I do it, it's giving me more and more every time.
Evan 51:51
it reverse leech. It's like a leech has taken so much blood it is giving back to you!
Aaron 52:00
Whoa, the transfusion!
Banks 52:06
It’s a transfusion movie! [Laughter] I mean, and, you know, you know, you say that, like, Oh, you can talk about it fumbling at the end. Maybe it is, it's not giving closure, but for some reason that does kind of make me want to watch it again. Because, I'm the one who wants to catch it and bring it to the, you know, to the end line. I'm the one who wants to try and sort it all out all again. Because, in the end, it's not a not a story. I think this is true about all the Coen Brothers movies, it's never just about the story or the plot. It's about the characters. And the characters are so darn amazing! They're so funny. They're so well rounded. You know, for me, like these, these are characters that even the worst of them don't take anything out of me. There's something about them that is medicinal, and that's great. And the mystery of the leech is here but I don't feel any leeches here. This is, uh, this lake got no leeches for me.
Aaron 53:04
Oh, my goodness. After all my talk about the land of 1000 Lakes and all the leeches that live there. 1000s of tons of leeches and it's 1000….my god.
Evan 53:19
It's a bold rating. I respect it. I yeah, I I find a lot of what you're saying compelling. I mean, even Marge, I think in some ways, she's the most instructive character in some ways, or there's she even like gets to moralize at the end of the movie. And yet, there's nothing about her that sucks the life out of me. I just think she's totally delightful.
Banks 53:42
Question is you the viewers, the listeners, What do you think? Yeah, we want to know, does this movie deserve more than zero allegiance? I am here to be proven wrong. So let us know hit us up on Twitter hit us up on Instagram. We'd love to hear what you think.