Episode 9: Prospect & AureLeeches
Episode Summary
Season 1’s penultimate episode finds our guys traversing the Green Moon, searching for aurelac and leechy wisdom in the 2018 film Prospect.
Episode Notes
After considering the fate of leeches in outer space in Leech Anatomy 101 (1:57), Aaron, Banks and Evan dive into Propsect’s leechiest themes (8:35), scenes (15:12), and characters (25:57). Following a brief Leech on a Beech respite (35:34), they conclude by considering the film’s medicinal qualities (40:13) and giving an overall rating -- from 1 to 4 -- of the film’s leechiness (48:27).
We’re always looking to expand our pond -- please reach out!
Series URL: www.theleechpodcast.com
Public email contact: theleechpodcast@gmail.com
Social Media:
@leechpodcast on Twitter
theleechpodcast on Instagram
External Links:
Victor Block, “Wallops Island Is Where the Monkeys and Leeches are Launched” [link]
Marek Szcipanek, “Polish leeches could conquer space” [link]
Willie James Jennings, After Whiteness [link]
Credits:
Hosted by Evan Cate, Banks Clark, and Aaron Jones
Editing by Evan Cate
Graphic design by Banks Clark
Original music by Justin Klump of Podcast Sound and Music
Production help by Lisa Gray of Sound Mind Productions
Equipment help from Topher Thomas
Transcript
Evan 00:28
Well, hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Leech Podcast: The Most Visceral Podcast. I'm your host Evan Cate, and I'm joined by my two favorite leechy gentlemen, Aaron Jones and Banks, Clark. What's up, guys? [Oh, my my my my my.] The Leech Podcast is a show about movies that suck the life out of you. But they also stick with you. They may even be good for you -- like a leech. This week we will be mining the depths of Prospect for aurelacian wisdom. That's right, we are watching Prospect, a 2018 film written and directed by Zeek Earl and Chris Caldwell. Stars Sophie Thatcher, Pedro Pascal, and Jay Duplass. It won a number of indie film awards, and we found watching it to be a leechy, leechy experience indeed. So thank you for being with us today. We will dive right into that movie in just a sec. But of course, we always want to be expanding our Pond. So please reach out to us @leechpodcast on Twitter, theleechpodcast on Instagram, and theleechpodcast.com -- our website where you can find transcripts, you can stream episodes, and find all sorts of bonus materials. So we're gonna dive into this movie in just a second. But as always, we want to begin by really coming to understand leeches on a deeper level. Aaron, help us out.
Aaron 01:57
Absolutely, Evan. Here I am, primed and ready for some good talk about leeches. Let's see now. As I was considering Prospect, it's a movie clearly set in outer space, the far reaches of space. And I thought to myself: Have leeches ever been to space? Well, it turns out they have. I'm looking at it. [What??] I'm looking at an article here from 1971 from The New York Times about a minor space launching point called Wallops Island. This is a Virginian launching point for the space program. Article titled: "Wallops Island is where the monkeys and the leeches are launched." There's not much to it, like the article actually raises more questions than it answers. And it's, so it's... I'm looking here it's a Space Center where people northeast see launches frequently in 1971. "While no astronauts had been sent a lot from Wallops Island, monkeys, bullfrogs and even leeches have blasted off from this marshy island off the coast of Virginia." Hmm, fascinating. It doesn't say why leeches have been launched. But I look over here at another source. I'm almost done now. But I'm...I actually need some of our LeechSearchers -- our listeners who can help me dig into this question here. I'm looking at a source and I don't know if it's a credible source. [Oh, yes.] It claims to be a source from Poland. Poland, the Ministry of Education and Science in Poland. And they claim on this website to be studying medical leeches in a research facility that tries to simulate the conditions of space missions. And I quote the researcher in the article, Dr. Wiśniowski who says quote, "Leeches can find many applications in space missions, in solving astronauts' health problems. One of the most difficult problems is impaired, limp circulation in the body due to lack of gravity, muscle atrophy, a serious problem in the state of weightlessness. As to this phenomenon, compounds found in the saliva of leeches have an anticoagulatory effect and dilate blood vessels, which improves the condition of the circulatory system and the lymphatic system." So I offer you this: space leeches, the solution to long distance space travel? That's all I have for today. Thanks, folks.
Banks 04:34
I have to say I am all for more leeches in space. More sci-fi movies in [The Leech] Season two and three. That's all I'm saying.
Evan 04:42
Totally agree. Totally agree. And I think, you know, if Elon Musk is a listener to the podcast, and he decides to develop this idea, we would like a cut, you know? [You heard it here first.] That might actually help astronauts get to Mars. Yeah, so we're going to copyright that and uh, so Thanks, Aaron, for that research.
Aaron 05:00
I have a new theory that the leech, leeches as a species and humans as a species cannot survive without one another. So I'm just putting that forward. When we get we move to Mars, guess who's coming with us?
Evan 05:12
Truly, truly symbiotic, this relationship. So please, listeners, please reach out to us on Twitter and Instagram. Tell us if this is a credible source. Tell us also if you would actually allow a leech to feed on you on a trip to Mars. We wanna know.
Banks 05:32
Oh, man. Okay, with that, let's jump into what's here. Let's talk a little bit about this movie, Prospect. As always, before we jump in, quick spoiler warning: we're talking all about this movie, go watch it, it's well worth your time. We really enjoyed it. And you know, you watch it, you won't need the summary that I'm about to give you, but I'm about to give it anyway. But do know that this is a movie that has some difficult bits. So a trigger warning, there are some really challenging scenes. So definitely some spoilers ahead. For example, you know, a guy's arm getting amputated. [Ouch.] That's an interesting and leechy scene. [Yeah.] It happens. So things like that. But it's a, it's a great film. Not one of the most triggering ones that we've seen, but definitely not one for the faint of heart. So the film opens to us meeting Cee, and the movie keeps us very close, the camerawork is very intimate -- it is almost claustrophobic -- and we get to meet Cee just sitting in a series of just beautiful shots. The cinematography in this movie is going to blow you away. We also get to meet her dad, Damon, and we learn that their relationship is somewhat strained. This is not a warm father-daughter relationship, in some ways. We also learned that they're in debt. And that they are sort of out to get, to try and recover that debt with one great last score where they're going to go down to the surface of this planet. They're in the outer rim, far from civilization, [and] they have to go down and come back, or else they're gonna get stranded. And so they go down to the planet. And they land, the spacecraft kind of breaks when they're landing, and they step out -- the air is toxic so like they're wearing like these apparati to do this. And all of a sudden, they meet these two sort of rogues, and one of them ends up killing Damon (the dad), and then one of the rogues dies. And so we have Cee left with Ezra, and Ezra is one of these rogues who end up killing her dad, and they end up teaming up. They end up having to solve problems together, they end up -- Cee amputates Ezra's arm --and they end up sort of developing a sense of trust almost, and they decide to go and try to finish the mission together. [They] go to the Queen's Lair and try to get all of this, you know, this aurleac sort of under the surface, and they are going to settle all the debts, and return to the spaceship. And they kill a bunch of mercenaries as they do it. And they sort of scheme and then they finally are able to return to the transport. And that story brings it all back home and you're kind of left wondering: Are we back where we started? Or not?
Evan 08:28
Mm hmm. Okay, Banks. Thank you. Aaron, what's a theme for you in this movie?
Aaron 08:35
Oh, gosh, leechy themes. So, so many choices in this movie, there's so much going on. For me, there's a lot of ways I could have put this, but the theme I want to talk about is plunder. Plunder. This is a movie about prospectors. And it's a movie that is sort of conjuring the American West in the space format -- a far space format. And I'm so interested in the way that there's a kind of environmental statement or vision at the heart of this movie. And where I'm drawing that from is, when I look at the contrast between the gold prospecting and the Old West, the American West, and the way that they harvest aurelac -- and I use the word harvest very intentionally. This isn't a mining practice. It is a form of extraction that is actually incredibly intimate with the moon, the Green, where they are. They have to slice open the surface of the moon. They pull out what actually look like these kind of almost disgusting sacks of like fetal fleshiness -- slice those open. It's so intricate. It's so intimate. That it feels like they're cutting open kind of a birthing body. And that intimacy that's demonstrated in their extraction, the way that it's entirely driven by greed, and yet what they're doing is actually so close in ways to the birth process. That for me, it's watching...It's a statement about kind of plundering the earth in a way that recognizes how intimate an act it is to take something that is a treasure and precious from the earth.
Evan 10:35
So you've hit a theme that is definitely highlighting the violence of this film or this, this plundering. I like that. I'm going to be a little sappier. [Oh, come on.] And my theme is fathers and daughters. [Oh, yeah.] And I think this narrative goes alongside, this theme goes alongside the one you described. So we should definitely talk about maybe the intersection of those two. But I'm gonna talk about fathers and daughters. I just think structurally -- and Banks, you hinted at this -- but structurally, this film begins with a biological father and his daughter in a ship. Together, they land on this planet. And then the film ends with the same daughter with a new, older man (father-figure, perhaps, in Ezra?) in a different ship leaving the planet. And there are themes of home woven throughout the film. And there's even like -- which, and which I'll talk about in a minute, this odd, other kind of potential father figure in one scene. So I think there is something going on here about fathers and daughters, which doesn't necessarily have to be gendered. But I do think... [Family.] Family, yeah. So I want to just highlight that theme. And I plan to unpack that as we go. But I just want to name it right here.
Aaron 11:59
Ah, you're making me think so many thoughts. And in fact, I'm coming back to this idea of plunder. And you're making me see, Evan, that actually, there's not a lot of women in this film -- well, there's not a lot of characters in the film. But I think that actually, by referencing the final dig as the Queen's Lair, we see that the ultimate feminine body in this film is the moon itself. Like she's being opened up. She's being plundered. Anyway.
Evan 12:28
So Aaron, I think that's a great point. And I just thought of that scene where Ezra's arm is amputated by Cee. [Good lord.] And what an interesting contrast, right? His body is cut into to save his life, actually. [Ahh!] And I think there's -- the film is working with a contrast here, potentially, between the the cutting into the earth, or the Mother Earth, the body of this moon, for extraction, for greed and whatnot. So yeah, let's put a pin on that and come back to it. But those images are in contrast for me.
Aaron 13:02
Oh, my gosh, you're opening it up for me. I love this.
Banks 13:05
What setting is he opening it up for you with that scalpel? Setting one to open it up? I'm not sure.
Evan 13:11
I think it's "four for bone."
Aaron 13:13
He's cutting me to the bone! The bone saw!
Banks 13:18
The film has this great thing where it's "two for flesh and one for bone." [Four for bone!] So, for me, the leechiest theme, the thing that hit for me and won't let go, is the theme of home. And Evan, you were talking about this, I was hinting it at the end of my sort of plot summary. And I think part of it is I've sort of been in this nomadic state the last few months where I've been sort of away from home, staying with good friends. It's sort of this rare moment, but I've been thinking a lot about home. And here's a movie where we're watching Cee trying to get back to a home. They learn the story about the planet where they were from, and then she learns from her dad that, oh, no, no, that's not where you were born. Right? And so immediately they do that, like she's having to almost learn and is disillusioned and disoriented about what home is. And then her only living family member dies: her dad. And then this other guy, Ezra, comes into life -- who killed her dad! -- and ends up in some ways being a father figure to her in ways that are very strange as a viewer. And then she returns back to where she started. And it's the story of, what is home? And I don't think the film ever answers it. But do I think it's this question of... It's a story of how our ideas of what home is are just changed through our lives and, I don't know, that theme hit me hard. That's been sucking some blood out of me. On level four of the scalpel. That's for sure.
Aaron 15:06
Level four of the proboscis.
Evan 15:12
Good night. Okay, well, let's dive into a couple scenes in this film. So we're looking for our leechiest scenes. I think I'll start. I'm going to talk about a scene that I, in my notes, wrote down as Oruf's proposal. [Huhhh! Oh, ick. Hmm. Oh!] It is an ick scene. It is an ick scene, yes. I hinted at it in my description of the theme. This is the scene where there is another figure who could potentially be the father figure for Cee. And it's a really strange scene, because it's... Ezra and Cee don't know each other very well. But they've had to sort of trust each other, even though they, you know, he just killed her father. But they need medicine, they need supplies. They go to this strange hut in the woods and are brought into this inner lair where they don't have to wear their normal masks and air filters. And they're met by a man named Oruf. And they're surrounded by a younger kid, a boy, and some people in the corner who were dying, maybe? Anyway, they try to broker this deal. And it looks like it's going to work -- they're going to get their supplies -- but Oruf then offers a counter-proposal, which is, I believe, 12 aurelac gems to Ezra in exchange for Cee as a more or less child bride for this young boy who's sitting next to him. Which would make Oruf, in a sense, the patriarch of this kind of odd religious cult. I mean, they talk about being reborn from the mines? [Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.] So I mean, the ick factor, the creep factor is strong in this scene. And I pick it as leechy because that was, I mean, the most uncomfortable scene for me; or among many, that was up there for me. And just again, it's this moment where a father figure offers gems or could potentially choose gems over see -- which Damon more or less did earlier -- and we don't know yet what Ezra is going to do. But we know that Oruf is proposing that, and that to me is just like leechy and uncomfortable. And I'm so scared for Cee in that scene that that's my leechiest scene.
Aaron 17:33
Wow, wow. I love, Evan, that you're contrasting Damon, Cee's father and that from his earlier choice with, with what Ezra has to choose right then. It's amazing. And I think that we know -- one of the ways we know Ezra is becoming a father figure -- is actually they need filters. Ezra is out of filters for breathing the toxic air of the planet. And they have to become literally linked by an umbilical cord-like apparatus. [Yeah.] So that they can share clean air together. Literally the person who just killed her father, and they're in this entirely dangerous, fraught relationship. They have to share a cord, they're "corded" together. And so, you're helping me, again, just kind of like, open up all the different dynamics here.
Banks 18:27
Yeah, I'd never thought about Oruf as like a father. Like, I was like, "Oh my gosh, that is totally there. Yeah, Good. That's good."
Aaron 18:36
Also, can I make a quick Fargo connection? [Oh, yes, please. Thank you for asking permission.] Remember, when the weird son in Fargo is like, in his room, playing music, and he has like the accordion poster? [The Accoridon King!!?]. Oruf's son is like this really weird kid playing music!! [It's Scotty! Scotty!] Oh, anyway, the Accoridon King of the Green.
Banks 19:07
Season One's real leechiest theme is accordions. No one saw that coming in our last round up here. All right. So for me, the leechiest scene, I think, has to be -- I call it the return to the spaceship, or the meeting in the spaceship. And that's where -- this is after Cee flees the scene of her father's death. Right? And returns to their spaceship and learns it doesn't work. She doesn't know what to do. And so like throws a little party for herself and then it's like okay, now what? That's when Ezra comes into the ship [God.] and she shoots him. And then he kinda like gets pissed and like takes like, "give that to me." And then they sit down and then they have this conversation. And this, this scene is a significantly long scene, but you are gripped. Your eyes are glued to the screen for every word because Ezra's oddly cool. He's not trying to kill her. He's just kind of pissed, but he just got shot. And this is going to then lead him getting his arm chopped off later. And all of a sudden, they're talking and you're wondering, like, this guy cannot be trusted. He just killed your dad. He's awful? And all of a sudden, you were like, but you're intrigued by him. The dialogue... He talks with this sort of, like, Southern gentlemanly, sort of folksiness and... But also very direct, he's very matter-of-fact. And all of a sudden -- I don't know how Pedro Pascal does it -- but you just immediately start trusting him in ways that you don't want to through that scene. [Yeeessss.] And I don't like that I start trusting him, but I am, and I am so drawn into this guy. And they leave partners.
Aaron 21:16
Mm hmm.
Banks 21:18
Like, the scene opens with him getting shot and they leave partners -- attached at the hip. The scene ends being like, you know, there's one more thing: then you see them attached, right? And I just... So that scene, I think, just changes the whole movie. I think it's masterfully done. And just his character has a way of just drawing you in and totally changing the entire storyline in an unexpected way.
Aaron 21:48
Mm hmm yeah, I mean they handle the scene masterfully: the directors, writers actors. Because that's a moment where the movie could fail, it could lose you. If that scene is not entirely believable -- fully tense, fully fraught -- but leading to resolution and a move forward. God, they could lose you hard. For me, when I'm thinking leechy scene, I go to the end. And I'm looking at the scene where kind of all these different themes, all these different visuals, all these plot points converge at the Queen's Lair. It's at the Queen's Lair that the film just leeches on me. It hooks on, puts the proboscis in, and I'm getting drained. I'm getting drained right there at the Queen's Lair. And so they decided they're going to try and go through with the mission, they're going to kind of plunder the Queen's Lair -- to come back to my theme -- as a way of getting off the planet. And oh my gosh, the confrontation with the Mercs. I feel like that's one of the longest scenes in the movie, by the way. Like there's the scene where she and Ezra have a confrontation. They then have to confront these mercenaries who are just ruthless, bloody people. They kill prisoners, they take no hostages, like they're ready to...
Banks 23:09
They play questionable music over the intercom -- I mean, it's a problem.
Aaron 23:13
The communication system is just like noisy with their bad music. Yes. But that scene where she and Ezra, I feel like it's this moment where they have to come together, and so much happens, so much happens. They attempt to plunder the Queen's Lair. And you have been led up -- if this were a Hollywood film, y'all, if this were a Hollywood film -- what we'd see is this amazing inspirational music. They would cut open the Queen's fetal packages and pull out fully formed, priceless gems. Instead, they fail time after time, and ruin the gems because of a mishandling of the materials and the equipment. And then there's this moment -- the moment -- I feel like the whole film's been building to this -- where Cee, who has learned how to plunder the Mother from her father. He showed her how to use these tools and the equipment. Ezra tries and can't do it. And she tries to save the entire mission, the whole situation, by taking up the tools, handling the Mother herself. And you're waiting for her to become the Savior. [Right.] And she fails in that moment. Like it's just leechy for me as a storytelling moment. It's perfect [You're waiting for her to succeed, right?] Her failure is so perfect and so important in that moment. And then leads -- I mean, I'm kind of having it, this is a huge package I'm going on and on -- but really the whole scene, from the confrontation with the mercenaries to the failure in the mining pit, and then the massacre of the mercenaries (which involves a character I want to talk about later.) But then this moment where she sees Ezra, kind of getting what looks like, looks like he's getting killed, just like the way that her father was killed. And when her father dies, she runs the hell away, and she doesn't look back. But when she thinks Ezra is dying, she runs away and you're like, she's saving herself. But she doesn't. She comes back. And that's a moment where you're like, Oh, my God, this whole journey has led to this: a duplication of her father's murder happening again, but with a different result now, where she comes back. She's learned and earned a true and deep connection. This is leechy for me. I've gone on long enough, but --
Banks 25:48
She runs away from her own dad. But she returns for Ezra. [Hmm.] I don't know what that means, but --
Evan 25:58
It's powerful. It's very leechy. And actually that -- it's interesting how that might dovetail in some ways with my leechy character. [Oh please, please, please.] So my leechy character is Damon.
Aaron 26:13
Yeah, I think that's right.
Evan 26:14
He is her biological father. He's in some ways hard to talk about. I think he's clearly greedy, and clearly makes the decision to get more aurelac in a way that puts him and his daughter at risk. And he doesn't survive that risk. So it's easy to see how his sort of greedy choice -- along with like, you know, he had kind of been snippy with her, he looked like he was taking drugs, maybe -- it's easy to see him as a difficult character. At the same time, I have some, I think, empathy for him, as I try to remember what we know about their story, which is he had lost his partner, you know, presumably sees mother. And, you know, I just try to think about what it would be like to lose your partner, and still have to be a parent to your child afterwards, and how difficult and painful and confusing that would be. And so, not to excuse any of his behavior -- I think, you know, he makes his decisions and he sees the consequences -- but I think he's leechy for me in that he sucks a lot out of me. And yet, I also think his experience is hard and painful. And he's failed and yet I empathize with, I think, his pain there.
Aaron 27:47
I think he finds himself trying to raise a child in these sort of raw survivalist conditions. And you're like, how can you be a parent who has the kind of affection and empathy that we'd hoped for? When what you're actually doing is just trying to create the basic conditions of survival. [Yeah.] Like he's given up a long time ago on trying to be a good parent. [Yeah.] He's just trying to guarantee survival and it's not pleasant to watch. It's not. He has been, he becomes -- and I will say, I like the word -- seduced. Like the moment where I see him make the choice that gets him killed, there's a kind of seduction that the aurelac has. [Oh, yeah.] Because it's not just, it's not just a gem. It's a symbol for everything that he could have back. And he can't help himself. I watch him not be able to help himself. It's like Uncut Gems all over again, right? [Yeah. Yeah.]
Banks 28:51
If even from the start, right? I mean, I think that, you know, Jay Duplass does a fantastic job of – when he sees it, you can see his eyes light up; you can see him almost, you know, drool at the mouth over it. This is what he lives for. [Oh gosh.] And, you know, he's not even fully honest about what he's going– like, "Oh, no, we're just going to the Queen's layer. It's secret. Oh, by the way, there are mercenaries there." Doesn't mention that. [Mmhmm.] Yeah, super leechy character. For a long time, he was, you know– I was trying to debate between him and another. I'm going to go with the other because– [Come on, come on] – I'm contrarian and like that.
Evan 29:33
No, do it, do it.
Banks 29:35
But for me, I've gotta say it's Ezra. I think Ezra is – [Whaaat?] – undeniably fascinating. I think that he is, you know– this figure who is untrustworthy, likable, deeply insightful. Grounded. Surprisingly honest. [Right?] Tells it like it is and is able just to move forward no matter what. 'Well, crap. I have an infection in my arm. Guess what? Here's a scalpel. Two for skin, four for bone. Let's do it.' There's something about his character that I find oddly refreshing and relatable. And yes, it all starts with, you know, the scene in the spaceship. And you want him– it's so easy, you want to cast him as this, you know, rogue, untrustworthy person, and then you get– then they start talking, like when further in the movie, before they get to the mercenaries, there's walking through the forest and Cee's just talking about her book.
Aaron 30:53
I wanted you to go here. I wanted us to go here. [Yeah, yeah.]
Banks 30:59
Just starts asking about it, shows interest, and is playful, almost – just sort of letting, trying to give her this sense of a real childhood that she's been denied. And has a real moment – this is the first moment of actual, like, tender fatherhood we see in the entire movie, is there. And it comes from Ezra. And so how– what the heck are we supposed to do with this guy? Pedro Pascal, I think, did a wonderful job with it. Leechy guy. Leechy scene. Sticks with me. Love him, hate him.
Aaron 31:34
Oh, yeah. I mean– you cannot have simple feelings about him as a character. I think he's– and maybe we'll get to this idea of him being medicinal in some way. And I hope we do. In fact, I have some thoughts about that. The character that I want to talk about briefly, if I could, I want to come back to this idea of plunder in the American West for a second. A character that sticks with me, and kind of like, kind of like a splinter in my mind [Mmm] is the man in red paint –
Banks 32:05
What is up with that guy?
Aaron 32:08
–at the end of the film. Well, let me tell you what I think is up with him. Because if you think about it, this film were a Western, who would that man be? Who would that man be? He would be a native person from the west. [Ohh, yeah] Someone who had– from a Native American Indian tribe– who had been captured by these white, gun-wielding plunderers. [Interesting.] And then the only thing that he gets to do– he has two things associated with him. One, is that in some ways, he's sort of set up as this strange– as a strangely mystical figure. Who [yeah] is contrasted almost visually with these weird, kind of like, propaganda images that live throughout the film of a kind of a quasi-empire, emperor figure. He stands in my mind as this odd contrast to that. Someone who sits seated in a chair, even imprisoned, wearing the regalia of, kind of a mystic royalty in my mind. But then he's painted entirely red, and the question is why? And then he participates, he breaks out of his confinement, and murders, and is like, violent. And there's a way in which, he does little in my mind to challenge the kind of stereotypical conceptions of a native person in the American West. But I find him such an odd figure, because again, I'm entirely speculating about this symbolism. Maybe the parallels I'm drawing are wildly off base. But I cannot help but be baffled by, intrigued by, and even kind of gripped by, in a way that latches on to me, this unusual figure at the end of the film. And why is he waiting for us at the end of the film? You know what I mean? Like, why is he waiting there for us?
Banks 34:05
I remember looking at this guy, and I'm like, I know he symbolizes something. I don't know what, but there's something there, you know.
Aaron 34:15
He's also by the way, he is native in that–
Evan 34:19
He can breathe, right?
Aaron 34:20
–he's breathing in the environment. [That's what I was gonna ask about.] He's naked at the end in a way that no one else lives, unmasked in that environment. And he says– he's just there in it as if it's his native element, this toxic polluted environment.
Evan 34:35
And to be encapsulated in glass outside the native environment was a cage, actually. So the place where the miners have to go to breathe, that's his prison. But when he's outside of that, he's in the open air, which which would kill the miners. Interesting contrast.
Aaron 34:53
And I can't tell if it's gonna kill him either, but he doesn't seem interested in getting off the planet. He's not interested in joining up with them. He doesn't say a word to them. [Guy's an enigma.] He's living his own his own narrative that intersects with theirs, that moves off entirely from theirs. He doesn't care. Anyway. The man painted in red.
Evan 35:15
Oh, I love that. I love that. I had not made that connection at all. It's good.
Banks 35:21
One thing I will say is– it might just be that he was a little sunburned. [Oh, I see what you're doing!] Maybe he would have his shirt off. [Yeah.] I don't know. Maybe he just spent a little bit too much time on a beach. That's all I'm saying. [Oh, oh!]
Evan 35:35
I think it's about that time!
Aaron 35:36
Is it time to go on vacation?
Evan 35:38
I mean, he had gone to the beach, and I think we need to go to the beach now too. So, Banks, take us to the beach.
Banks 35:47
So beachy scenes, beachy things, these are the things in the movie that are life-giving, a little bit of levity in something that's otherwise taking something out of ya, sticking with ya in some heavy, heavy ways. And I'm just gonna say, the wardrobes in this are frickin' hilarious, [Oh, haha!] because they like– I'm so used to like, sci-fi films where everyone's frickin' armor, and everyone's frickin aparattuses are just so attractive, are so like, awesome-looking [wow]. And for me, especially Ezra's breathing apparatus, is the ugliest space suit of all time [haha!]. It doesn't even fit him; like half the time, his forehead is pushed up against the glass. He's like fogging it up as he breathes, like, from the back it has all these extra plugs. It just looks like this, very 'steam punk gone wrong' thing. And I just think that's hilarious that they went there, that they weren't seduced by trying to make, you know, all the garments really sexy-looking. Like, no! This was so functional it would, you know, turn your eyes away. And so I found that to be hilarious. I love that they did that. And I love that you can totally see the actors being like, yeah, this looks awful. [Let's for it.] Let's go into it. They lean in, and it's great.
Aaron 37:13
I actually think you're right, and in a different way, for me, it's like– it's one of the subtle pleasures of the film– is just to enjoy the intensive detail about quotidian objects and procedures. The weird manuals that they read to do mechanical tasks is such a delight, to move through the film alongside and inside that experience.
Evan 37:40
It's very lived in. Like it's– they have created a whole world here with different propaganda figures and music and languages. It's it's really well-considered, including my favorite – I think it's funny, it's darkly funny. So my place where I go to laugh, and we've said it a few times, is this scalpel [Good god] that Cee uses to help amputate Ezra's arm [oh, sir], and I gotta say it's, I mean it's painful, but when he says, 'Two for flesh, four for bone,' [Oh god], I think I was so uncomfortable that I just couldn't help but laugh.
Aaron 38:19
Am I right that someone walked into the room at that moment in your home?
Evan 38:23
Oh yeah, my wife walked in. 'What are you watching?' [Haha!]
Banks 38:30
She has a habit of walking in exactly at those moments. [Oh my gosh.]
Aaron 38:35
If I can just– I'm gonna tag on here because Ezra, I think Ezra has a lot of beachy parts. [Mmm] And I just wrote down a quote that I love where he says, "I know the lure of vengeance. I myself have frequently indulged." [Haha!] Just like, his dialogue is another one of those pleasures in the film, even as it's sucking things out of me. I'm like, give me my anticoagulant. Like, this is nice. Yeah.
Evan 39:07
Oh, that's nice. I also think – just to throw one more thing in there – there were a number of moments where I was reminded of Star Wars, when they're in this like, wooded planet. [Oh yeah] And then there's a low red moon at one point. And I just kept wondering if there were going to be Ewoks, and the thought of Ewoks took me to the beach.
Aaron 39:28
Ayyy, I'm really glad there weren't. [Same] But I'm glad they were conjured in your imagination.
Banks 39:37
Yeah, obviously, if they're gonna pull something, they needed to pull in Jarjar Binks. That would have, I think, been a good balance. [Ayyy!] Really the missing theme from all the movies we've seen so far has been that.
Aaron 39:51
Has been the Binks, am I right? The Binks.
Evan 39:54
The Binks. Well, on that note, it's been another great episode [haha] of Leech on a Beach.
Banks 40:00
When Banks talks about the Binks, you know, it's time to end [Ayyyy!]
Evan 40:04
Banks on Binks! [ohhhh]
Banks 40:07
That's also my– that's my other podcast, by the way. #banksonbinks
Evan 40:13
Deep dive on Jarjar. [Ohoho!] Wow. Okay, well, let's talk about the hirudotherapy in this film. So what is medicinal or instructive from this film that we want to take with us? Someone jump in.
Aaron 40:34
I don't want to– I don't want to steal some thunder. But I do want to pick up a thread that I was just on, which is where– Banks I so badly wanted you to talk about the scene where Ezra and Cee are walking together, and the film slows, the film calms. [Yes.] And it creates a space. [For the first time, really]. I mean, it creates space in space. Am I right? Am I right? Sorry.
Banks 40:55
They're not in space. They're on a moon, whatchu talking about!
Aaron 40:57
Anyway, anyway, it makes space for Cee to let her guard down, and to talk about stories. And to talk about this story that has been so important to her, in fact, that even though she doesn't have the original book anymore, she is rewriting the book from memory. And she lights up as a person, literally, like the light of her personhood emerges and shows itself for the first time. And her childhood, her innocence. And there's a way in which I think this film – and this is what's medicinal to me – is showing us that stories, and storytelling, have this fundamentally animating power, even in these environments that are entirely built around survival and desperation. Story moves through, like a silver, or crystalline, indestructible thread through the center of this catastrophe, ahh, and life persists there.
Banks 42:07
I'm not going to build on that. That friend, speaks my mind. That was – [Yeah] – stories, they're good. That's that's what I'll add.
Evan 42:15
Yeah, I was reflecting on the same scene, Aaron. [Mmm] This is where the medicine is for me, too, and I would echo much of much of what you've said. I think for me, as I thought about this scene, and as I think about the theme that I've been talking about this whole podcast, of fathers and daughters, I think that scene is where it really comes home for me what this film is offering us in terms of good fatherhood. So in this scene, Ezra asks her about home. And he's already asked her about that earlier in the film, and she didn't really go for it. But he asks her about it here. He says, "So where's home?" And she says, "I don't have one." And then the camera pans to his amputated arm. And then he asks her about this story. And she starts telling about the story that you've narrated, Aaron. And it's as she opens up and tells that story, that he then, he listens, he holds that story. And she then draws this contrast to what her dad wanted her to learn, you know: 'Don't learn about stories, learn skills for survival.' And she says, 'If I had learned those skills, my dad would be here.' And he says, you know, 'You just can't think that way.' And, right after he says that, she says 'My name is Cee.' It's where she actually opens up to him. And so I'm just struck by the cluster of being known, telling stories, and then Ezra offering his wound and allowing her to see his wound and to help care for it. As opposed to Damon, who clearly had a wound himself, but it could only be inward on it. I don't know, again, I'm gonna get sappy here. And, you know, as I think about preparing to become a dad of a little girl, just thinking about what have I learned from Ezra in this scene about listening to the stories that my daughter might tell and allowing her to see my own wounds. So I'm just really moved by that, instructed, challenged by that scene and by that relationship.
Aaron 44:37
Absolutely. Absolutely. I love how it's the one moment where this entirely loquacious, overly-talkative character realizes – and you kind of see it in his eyes – he's like, 'Oh, she's talking. Oh, I think it's my turn to listen now. I think I have to listen now.'
Banks 44:59
But he gets a smirk on his face as it happens, he's like... It's a powerful– this movie has no shortage of powerful scenes, but I think that one might– that one hits the heartstrings more powerfully than the others.
Evan 45:13
It's the one that stuck with me. I had to rewatch it again the other night, as I was thinking about this movie again. I just like, I want to see it. I want to see the dynamics of it. And it's really stuck with me. Yeah.
Aaron 45:24
Gosh I'm so glad you did that. Yeah.
Banks 45:27
You know, Chris Caldwell, you know, Zeek Earl, they can make a scene.
Aaron 45:34
Guys, what are we thinking about leeches here? Wait wait wait! We gotta get Banks. Do you have therapy? Beyond– ore you said, you're echoing the story?
Banks 45:46
Let's see. I mean, yeah, I got some hirudotherapy if you want to go there. I think that something really powerful about this movie is that you don't have to answer every question. This is a movie that asks, it's not even– I don't actually think this is a– people love to talk about 'movies ask questions.' I don't think this movie is asking a ton of questions. I think it's just telling a good story. And that naturally makes questions. And I think a lot of the time we are tempted to give those questions as much resolution as possible. And I love this– one of the things I love about this movie, a lesson I think that sticks with me from it is, some of those questions are worth answering. Some of them, just let them run. We never know what fatherhood means. We never know what home means. We never know what happens to Cee. We don't even know if they even make it back to the transport. [Right.] We don't know if they are going to be in debt and then put in, you know, debtor's prison. They're just– we're just told they took off. And there's something that just works. And I think that–I don't know, I'm one of those people who tries to answer every question I'm asked. This is a lesson in 'maybe don't do that every time.' You can still tell the story you need.
Aaron 47:02
You're making me think, gosh, you're making me think, Banks. You're reminding me of my good friend Willie Jennings. [Ohh] My good friend Willie Jennings. [Oh, I'll take that compliment!] Who talks about– he talks about life as a collection of fragments. And this film is just a fragment [Yes] of much larger and longer stories. Like, we only get a small broken piece of glass. That's it. And it connects to that idea, right? Like, fragments don't automatically give the answers to questions. But they're still like beautiful and you piece them together and it's a wonderful thing. This life of fragments. Right, and that reminds me of that part in Cee's description of the stories that she loves, where she tries to imagine the scenes that are in between the scenes of the story. [Yeah.] It's a broken story. Yeah, it's a fragmented story.
Evan 47:55
What a, like, a brilliant, beautiful way to think about stories and inhabiting stories and the imagination. And I also feel like this movie on some level is imagining the scenes between the scenes of, say, Star Wars or other movies. It's like, well, what would happen if you were, you know, in a sarlacc pit, or but you had to walk to the pit -- what would that scene be like? And I feel like this whole story grew out of a fragment of other stories.
Aaron 48:24
Oh wonderful. Oh!
Banks 48:27
Well guys, we gotta, we gotta at some point try to give this movie a leech score. [Good gracious.] As we do, as is tradition.
Aaron 48:35
As one does.
Evan 48:36
Yes, very important.
Banks 48:37
As one does.
Aaron 48:42
Does anybody want to go first? I do not feel like I can go first.
Banks 48:46
I'll start us off here, y'all. I'll start us off. And this movie... it's so funny. You know, I watched these movies again in light of really trying to be mindful about how they stick with me, how they do that. And all of a sudden you see them in new ways. And this is a movie that I loved way more than I did the first time through it. I was enthralled. This is in like my top 10 movies of all time now. [Wow! Gasp.] Which is why I am giving it two leeches. I think it's a two-leech movie. I think that it is, it has some leechy things to it. I really think Ezra is an incredibly leechy character. I think some of the scenes... But I think that so so much of the film is just it's there's some very delightful things about it. There's just some great characters and there's so much economy to this film -- it's so tight and it's just such a simple story. For some of me, it just doesn't have the on ramp to get the speed of some of the other leechiest films that we've seen. And I think I would say that that might be to its credit as to why it's in my top 10. [Yeah.] It just might -- it doesn't make it one of the top 10 leechiest.
Aaron 50:06
Right. I think it needs -- if it were going to be more than two leeches for me, it needs a little more misery. For this or in some ways like... [He needed to have his leg cut off too. Like, just one arm? C'mon!]. It's like, and when I think about leechiness, this film sticks with me, it has such stick-with-me power. But I feel like, after the second watching, the leech doesn't feed. It doesn't take as much out of me. There's a lot of pleasure for me. And getting to move through this landscape, this environment, and with these characters and the love that I feel for them: by the end, and even by the end of this conversation, I feel like my my nearness to those characters has grown. And so for me, I honestly think it could drop to a one but I don't, I don't think that's the case for me. I agree with two and partly because, again, just the stick-with-itness. But I have so much delight that I feel -- like normally a leech eats like five to 10 times its own bodyweight or can grow five to 10 times its own size.
Evan 51:15
Right, Right.
Aaron 51:16
But uh, I'm not-- not that much is being taken out. Yeah, I feel so heartened. Anyway.
Evan 51:23
You put it exactly how I'd put it, or very close. Like I'm at two leeches. Hmm.
Aaron 51:28
[Agreement.] Yeah. Rare agreement. Yeah.
Evan 51:31
I think it's, it's a brilliant film. And it was really nice to go back and rewatch part of it and think through it some more. Especially structurally, with so few characters, they do so much with it and really draw out every piece of it. So I really appreciate the filmmaking and I'm impressed by it. But I think in terms of sucking the life out of me. I'm not -- not as high as some other ones. So I'm, I'm at two.
Aaron 51:57
I remember how I felt after uncut gems. [Yes.] And, you know, I felt like, gosh, I had multiple wounds on my body.
Evan 52:08
Multiple leeches! [And they wouldn't stop.] There were multiple leeches sucking on you. Yeah. All right. Well, speaking of wounds that will keep bleeding, we do want to let you know that we are going to watch There Will Be Blood as our next film. So if you'd like to prepare ahead of time for our conversation, please, please go watch There Will Be Blood. It's on plenty of streaming platforms. And we think you will enjoy it and also, it will probably suck some life out of you. As always, we are the Leech Podcast, the Most Visceral Podcast. You can contact us on Twitter @leechpodcast; on Instagram, theleechpodcast; and theleechpodcast.com. It has been a delight being with you. Aaron, Banks, thanks, guys.
Banks 52:58
It's been a good one. All right. We'll talk to y'all soon.